James Suckling Interviews: Edouard Moueix

James Suckling Interviews features innovative and influential winery owners, winemakers and industry notables representing the new generation that is shaping tastes, trends and techniques in the greater wine world. 

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Edouard Moueix is the third-generation winemaker of the legendary Moueix family and co-owner – with his father, Christian – of the Premier Cru Grand Classe estate properties Chateau Belair-Monange in Saint-Emilion and Chateau La Fleur-Petrus in Pomerol, as well as Napa’s Dominus Estate and Ulysses Vineyard, and Jean-Pierre Moueix wines. The 47-year-old is the grandson of Bordeaux trailblazer Jean-Pierre Moueix and has been working alongside his father since 2003. In 2008, he played a major role in the merger of Chateau Belair and Chateau Magdelaine, a combination that resulted in the single, 58-acre Premiers Grand Crus Classe property of Chateau Belair-Monange. Susan Kostrzewa spoke with him recently about Bordeaux pricing, the future of merlot, why design is an essential part of Moueix winery properties and how to draw more people into drinking fine wines. Edited excerpts from the interview are below. 

You were one of the first Bordeaux producers to drop your prices significantly for 2023 en primeur, and now top names such as Lafite, Mouton and Leoville Las Cases have followed, yet reports from Bordeaux indicate that 2023 futures sales are very slow. Wine producers are worried. Do you think that en primeur is on the decline now? Should Bordeaux rethink the whole en primeur system?

I don't think en primeur is necessarily on the decline. If Bordeaux accepts having lower prices in this period in order to leave a margin or a potential investment for the consumer, it will keep on working. Historically you had two great vintages, maybe three, every decade. With those great vintages, the prices were not necessarily the most amicable prices for the consumer, yet since they were quite rare, the market then would build up over five to 10 years to bear that price level. Nowadays we have one, maybe two vintages which are average, and the rest are good to very good, and sometimes exceptional. And that's where we need to find the right balance. Adapt the prices to the market more than to the vintage. It’s what we have done for our own wines [and what others in Bordeaux are doing]. We think stability is a much better approach and so we ourselves never have crazy increases, and don’t need to make crazy decreases either, yet there's a difficult market.

That’s where we should praise Bordeaux.  Very few wine regions are lowering their prices 30 percent, 35 percent, 40 percent. And yes, maybe some went too high last year and therefore needed to decrease for their own brand. But if you look at the example of Lafite, we sold all our Lafite last year yet Saskia [de Rothschild] still adapted to that price. Philippe de Rothschild with Mouton had to decrease so much. They’re very happy with the quality of the wines and there's no reason for them to do so but for the consumers. Overall, it is a very good thing and Bordeaux has never been so in touch with the markets.

In recent years you expanded the size of a number of chateaux by consolidating other estates into some key names such as Belair-Monange and La Fleur-Petrus. How has this been done and what effect has it had on the terroir-driven uniqueness of each property? Have you created new entities or maintained and enlarged past ones? Are they the same as before?

It's purely quality-driven. I often say we are we are wine drinkers before being wine producers and our aim is to produce the best possible wine that will give the most pleasure. We are in a world in Bordeaux where everything is based on blends. In Bordeaux, we have entities with multiple parcels and sometimes different grape varieties, and each has its own specific type of soil. We blend all those different elements to produce a better wine. With La Fleur-Petrus, I removed a few parcels which never made it into the blend … and therefore were not at the level of the quality. We just included some more parcels that were bringing different types of characters, which by being blended with the heart of La Fleur-Petrus brought more complexity and more pleasure. I decreased the amount of wine that was declassified, and since we don't have second labels, it was going into bulk wine and it was a shame.

'We are in a world in Bordeaux where everything is based on blends.'

 

With Belair-Monange, it was a slightly similar approach yet no parcels were removed out of the Magdeleine and Belair vineyards. They were complementary and it made total sense to merge them together. On top of that, Magdeleine was slightly tired in terms of the shape of the vines – the same problem we were facing with Belair. When you work on a replantation plan, which is the key because you never have 100 percent of your vineyard that is in production, you must look ahead to the next 15 to 20 years. You cannot pull out an entire vineyard and have no production for 10 years and then replant everything. It was a totally a quality-driven decision which allowed us to keep on producing wine with a few older vines and a few younger vines and have that rotation, which is necessary.

James has heard many people in Bordeaux say that merlot is in jeopardy because of the increase in hot and dry growing seasons where the grape is picked, resulting in elevated alcohol levels and increased pHs. With this in mind, what are your thoughts on the future of merlot in Bordeaux?

Merlot is a fantastic variety in Bordeaux and there's very few other places in the world where you can get that complexity. Because of our soil, the vine has to develop its root system and go deeper, which creates a stress for an otherwise lazy grape variety. With the stress in a cold soil and with our climate, which is the meeting of oceanic and continental influences, it can produce wines with complexity, depth, generosity and aging potential. Merlot [in Bordeaux] works well, and that's the identity of the wines we want to produce. It needs to be saved, as sangiovese should be in Italy. In Napa, we don't have a vine of merlot left because we don't feel that in the Dominus or Ulysses vineyards that merlot can offer anything interesting. Merlot doesn't really function in many other places. But in Saint-Emilion and Pomerol it works. Let's be proud of that.

In 2022, which was a very hot and very dry vintage from day one, the merlot was extremely well behaved and the wines still had freshness, which surprised most of us. It was a great comfort for us because it shows we are in the right direction. Yes, it is a grape variety that is moody, that deserves attention. For the ‘24 vintage, we have quite a lot of rain at the moment and merlot is sensitive to mildew, so we have to be out there. But since when has wine not been made in the vineyard? And when have we been able to predict the weather? It’s probably one of the only things that we cannot predict. And it was the case before. And it will remain the case for a very long time, because the more we know, the less we know. The life of a of a farmer is complicated.

FROM THE VAULT: EDOUARD MOUEIX ON CHATEAU BELAIR-MONANGE’S ‘PURE EXPRESSION OF TERROIR’ (APRIL 2024)

That’s true, but ’23 was described as a particularly tricky vintage due to weather unpredictability and climate change may continue to require more innovation and nimble adjustments in the vineyard and the cellar, as you mentioned. Can you talk about how you are positioned to handle this?

Our approach has always been in the vineyard and we are very lucky to have a very strong group of people working in our vineyards. And it's true in Bordeaux as it is true in Napa. We're trying to reproduce the same system, even if it's different countries and different laws.

Here in Bordeaux, 95 percent of our vineyard team lives on the properties [as does Edouard]. We are on the ground. And when you are on the ground, your parcel is your own because you fight every day for it.

You just open the gate of your garden and you're in a parcel. And if you have to go there and fight and do what needs to be done to help the vines through a storm or any climatic events you just do it. I think that's our great luck and that's our philosophy. We are vignerons ourselves. We are surrounded by a team of vignerons that when they talk to me about a parcel they are in charge of, it's not my parcel, it's their parcel. We are lucky to have the means to have all those people live on those properties. I think that's the viticulture of tomorrow, though Bordeaux is facing a massive problem as far as creating this continuity goes.

Do you mean as far as on-property vignerons making a living?

8 percent of Bordeaux was pulled out last year; maybe 10 percent more to come. It’s not just about the wine. We're talking about human beings having invested all their lives. I'm not talking about money, I’m talking about generations. I'm talking about work – very hard work. Getting up in the morning, whether it rains, it pours or it's extremely hot. You're out there and you do the job and all of a sudden, against a few cents, you pull out your vine and you will never produce any wine for the next generation. Bordeaux has been very active in accommodating people affected by this. But there is sometimes very little that you can do.

How are you addressing this? Your family has been quoted as saying that “business and family goes beyond simple transactions,” and that your support of your teams is essential to you.

We are lucky to have customers that are accepting of our prices, which allows us to redistribute that wealth throughout our teams in the vineyards. I'm not going to buy a Ferrari. I couldn't care less. Everything is reinvested for the comfort of the cellar workers, in the vineyard to create comfort in their work with tractors, horses and etc. That’s the most important thing for me.

Architecture and design are a focus for the family, stretching back to the 1990s with the Napa Valley Dominus Estate collaboration and most recently with the Herzog & de Meuron project for Chateau Belair-Monange. Can you talk about your philosophies on winery design and why you think creating these spaces is important?

The Herzog & de Meuron partnership is very interesting because in wine we always talk about terroir, about the expression of a specific vine on a specific site. If you look at all the buildings they have constructed around the world, unless you know their work, you cannot link those buildings together because there will always be a sense of place in what they do. The only way you can really link them together is the fact that the design was inspired by the location. When you talk about terroir in architecture, you have the expression of the land: in Napa, it's basalt from the American Canyon, and in Saint-Emilion, the famous limestone. But what I admire most in their approach is their humility, putting themselves aside to focus on the building and its use. They create a building that has been entirely designed by and for the people using it, addressing all of their needs and also turning it into something beautiful. And that environment will affect the quality of the wine. There’s a serenity that you have in the building that I'm convinced we will find in the 2022 and 2023 vintages produced there. Work environment is key. There’s no making your wine remotely.

What do you think our industry, as well as Bordeaux, could do better to retain wine drinkers and attract new ones?

I have plenty of friends who love wine and they all drink less. I drink less. Things are going so fast. We are constantly on our cellphones and replying to email. But the reality is, no, we're not promoting ourselves well enough. We're not promoting the history well enough to new generations. We have that sort of dusty look and we have a very awkward [way of speaking about wine] because we are in a world which is extremely difficult to summarize, extremely difficult to communicate if we're not communicating on the pleasure alone. And even that is tricky because we have to be careful about equating wine and health. It's a wonderful industry; it's a wonderful environment. But of course, if you abuse anything, it's bad. If you drink too much wine, you're going to be sick. And wine without alcohol is not the answer. Because alcohol has a role in the balance of wine: it's a solvent, it enhances the aromas and it keeps the polyphenol and tannins, which are elements that have a good impact on your body. And that has been proven by all the scientists around the world.

'Wine without alcohol is not the answer.'

I think it’s a matter of balance, of moderation. You don't have to drink a bottle by yourself at the table if you're not used to it, if you cannot take it. I think that the wine that suffers the most in this is actually red wine, which is very sad because it provides amazing pleasure and there’s so much complexity. It’s an excuse to share unique moments with your friends. When you have a great bottle of wine in front of you, no one's looking at their cellphone.

And then the other problem, if we look at Bordeaux specifically, is the belief that it needs to be consumed old, and that I totally disagree with. Quite a few years ago we had a hard time reaching maturity with the fruit, and therefore you needed to wait. Nowadays we can produce wines of great complexity with beautiful fruit, with beautiful aromas which are after six or seven years absolutely amazing to drink.

– Susan Kostrzewa interviewed Edouard Moueix for JamesSuckling.com